Hello Warpslide!

** On Thursday 10.06.21 - 09:25, you wrote to me:

 W> I bought a stainless steel wallet which I actually quite
 W> liked.  It was supposed to block RFID signals as well, but
 W> I never tested it.  The problem was the corners were kind
 W> of sharp and scratched the hell out of the screen on my
 W> phone!

I've seen people with hard cases for their credit cards. Some  
have sharper edges than others. And I wouldn't want to remember  
to carry *two* containers: one for my money and another for the  
cards.

 AA>> Yes.. the keyless ignition fobs emit a signal constantly..

 W> It's just a CR2032 battery, which Ford says *should* last 3
 W> to 4 years. The other half has a Honda civic & had to
 W> replace the battery after 2 years.

I just replaced the battery for the rav4 fob about 3 years ago.  
That makes it 10 years!  But I just have the regular fob, not  
keyless.

 W> The FOB just has to be inside the cabin, there isn't
 W> anywhere to insert it. Mostly for me it's either in my
 W> pocket or I throw it in the cup holder.

That can seem convenient, when you just have to be near the  
vehicle and you can just start it without actually putting the  
keys into the ignition.  But I still see a security problem  
with that.   Say, you've started the car, and sitting idle, the  
key is on your person, a hacker can monitor the constnat  
signalling that key/car are having.

 W> And the FOB needs to be in the cabin the entire time you're
 W> driving, otherwise the car will just come to a stop.  So I
 W> don't know if it constantly broadcasts or just beacons from
 W> time-to-time.

Beacon makes the most sense, otherwise the battery would drain  
much faster.

 AA>> That *is* interesting. So.. if the lid is tightly closed, but
 AA>> unlatched, then some signal still leaks?

 W> Another thing I read was people keeping their keys in the
 W> microwave.  I put my keys in there and I was still able to
 W> communicate with my bluetooth tracker.  So either I have a
 W> really crappy microwave that leaks radiation or that
 W> faraday cage only blocks microwaves & not bluetooth?

I think microwave is exactly 2.45Mhz.  Whereas, bluetooth is  
anywhere between 2.4Mhz to 2.48Mhz (?)

Their best bet is a completely foil-lined container.

 W> "The new system uses a sleep mode that sends the fob to
 W> sleep if it remains motionless for 40 seconds and wakes it
 W> up once it detects movement and is within 6.5m of the car."

But even the sleeping part and the motion detection part need  
some battery juice to operate.  So, maybe the sleep mode is  
more like a beacon thing with an extended gap time?

 W> So it sounds like I may not need the faraday box for when
 W> I'm home, though I'll use it anyway.

I doubt that the 6.5m is precise.  Those figures often have a  
margin of error.

 W> As for walking about, it sounds like the FOB sleeps until
 W> it's within rage of the car, so walking around the grocery
 W> store should be safe.  There are also faraday pouches you
 W> can buy, but I doubt I'll go that far.

Oh.. so the danger-zone (the time and space in which a hacker  
would operate) is only when the fob and the car are in close  
proximity?   Still, parking lots sound like fertile ground were  
hackers with the radios can operate as there would be plenty of  
people close to their vehicles.





--
  ../|ug

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